Anybody ever wonder about genetics?

I am just curious what you guys think about genetics. If you are reading this, its likely that you are highly motivated when it comes to contests, just like me...but I would be lying if I said from time to time I didn't doubt my genetic ability. At my height and my build, I sometimes wonder if its feasible to be a WNBF pro. I know deep down that I have the work ethic and that I am willing to go the distance. That said, I am not deluding myself either...those PQ stages are loaded with talent and genetics. Over my hulking dead body would I ever quit this quest, but sometimes you gotta step back and wonder.

I am a big fan of raw effort and determination though. I think that can trump genetics quite a bit.

thoughts????

EDIT: don't mistake this post for a sign of self-doubt or weakness...I am more determined today than I have ever been. I feel I grow stronger every single day. I am just wondering if anybody else ever questions thier body and what mom and dad gave 'em.

Wow, what a question.  I could stay at my computer for about 14 years before I finished.  I'll let you guys pound out this one for awhile, but here are the boundaries on both sides of the continuum:  Your genetics are your genetics.  Muscle length, number of fibers, percentage of fiber type, origin/insertion differences, skeletal structure is huge....we don't control nor can we change one thing when it comes to our genetics - it's like trying to change gravity.  You can "overcome" gravity by getting stronger, jumping higher, etc, but you can't change the gravit is 9.8 m/s2.  You can't change your genetics.  The question is, when have you maxed out your genetics? You will reach  max, and that's what keeps us going - we never want to be there - we want to try this and that and keep progressing, and that is great - that's fun, it's what makes us improve.  I'll stop there, but I'll jump in with examples as the thread progresses.  This will be a fun one. 

Sean:

 For what it is worth, my take on the genetics is that if you have average genetics, you can compete and win a pro card.  At the pro level it gets tougher for those who do not have the best genetics to win but not impossible.  Dave Goodin who you mention does not have the best genetics but what he has is the ability to take his body and create an illusion.  In other words, when he poses he has fewer flaws then when you measure him and compare him to an ideal bodybuilders proportions.  Sometimes how well you do comes down to how bad you want it.   Dave has mastered the posing which is instrumental in his wins.  Everyone has their own strengths so you work on everything but you have to use what you can to make yourself the best you can be.   I think we could all fire off names of people with great genetics who have competed in the WNBF.  Two worth noting, Kai Green and Desmond Miller are now IFBB Pros.  They both started in the WNBF and have since moved on to the non-tested. 

 Having better genetics will help someone place but to win you need so much more than just good genetics.

 My friend, Chris Morin developed a testing program that compares proportions and gives people an idea of how symmetrical they are, what areas need work and how they compare to top natural bodybuilders.  It is really excellent.  You can check it out at www.fiteval.com  Go to physique evaluation.  FYI - I was tested before I even started lifting or competing and I came out perfectly proportioned with two bonuses, a smaller waist and bigger calves.  I definitely experienced a lot of success right away because my structure and balance was where it needed to be.  So,take that and start weight training and add 10 lbs of muscle and the numbers are off the chart.  I know genetics definitely helped me because half of the score is the symmetry round an those with the best genetics will win that round if they are in the right condition, pose right, have the right suit and tan. 

Genetics are not the only thing that play a role but when you have everything being equal- (condition,posing, peaking, tan, suit etc.) the person with the better genetics prevails 90% of the time at the Pro level.  With amatuers there are usually mnore variables but at the pro level, more people know what to do to be ready for the show.

 Joe, do you concur?

Nancy

One more thing I forgot to mention, I qualified to the WNBF in my first attempt and I had only been competing one year.  I won my first Worlds after only competing two years.  I know genetics is what helped me because I did not know nearly as much about contest prep as I did with the last few wins with Joe.   The other thing is the posing was always easy for me plus I had a GREAT posing coach. 

And it is correct, it took Dave Goodin ten years and then probably another 5 to win a pro show but he has perserverance and works really hard to be the best he can be. 

My advise is take whatever strengths you have and make the most of those.  Work on weaknesses and posing and you will do much better.  If you are here you are most likely workign with Joe, so your condition will not even be an issue.

Thanks for all the support guys. I thought this would be a good topic because it effects all us, some more than others obviously but we are bound by genetics.

Nancy, You bet I am working with Joe and its been an incredible releif thusfar simply because I know without a doubt my condition will be second to none come showtime. Its my not-so-secret weapon. Given my genetics and relative inexperience(only 3 shows under belt), I am relying on superior conditioing and superior posing to cary me this spring. My size has improved a lot this last offseason, but that said, at 6'2" tall, I have a lot of room to fill out and that will take time. I understand this and am more than willing to continue the journey regardless of what lays ahead. Additionally, I think yet another great way to level the field so-to-speak is to simply take the time to do the things the other guy won't do. For example, posing practice. I start posing practice 20+ weeks out. Not only do I practice myself, but I watch any and all video I can get my hands on. I look for people with a similar body structure and learn. I am continuously experiementing with different variations of each pose. Another example is the routine. I have my music professionally cut and edited. At the amateur level, that is rare. I craft the routine around the music, not vice versa(again, as many amatuers do). Doing stuff like that I think, in the end, makes a huge difference. In the back of my mind I have always been determined that if the show comes down to me and some other guy, the judges are going to choose me because of my incredible attention to detail. I drive the route from the hotel to the contest site, timeing the drive so not to risk being late the next day. Things like that. I plan each and every little aspect of the show. Its borderline crazy actually....but then again, so is this sport. LOL

Joe, 14 years at the computer huh? I thought I only bought 1 year of your service. ;) You brought up muscle origins/insertions. Talk about a deciding factor!! I am convinced this is precisely why my chest is my weakest link. I am willing to bet you my pec insertions are pathetic when compared to the average WNBF pro. Fiber percentages are another great topic. As much as it pains me to write this, the reality is that my body is built more like a runner than a bodybuilder. My type IIb fibers are not what a lot of guys have in terms of percentages...so I rely on smart training and type IIa adaptation. I have and continue to force my body to do things it does not want to do. I look back on where I have come from and have nothing but awesome pride in my accomplishments. That said, the goals still seem so far away. So I do the only thing I know how to do. I wake up everyday and put my nose to the grindstone. When this little experiement of bodybuilding is over for me one day I would hate to think there is something else I could have done. I want to maximize not only my genetics, but my drive to succeed.

kmaster82, you mentioned visualization....that is a great topic. Before I was a comptitive bodybuilder, I was a competitive golfer. I know. Crazy swtich. We used visualization all the time, just as all great athletes do. The mind is always the most powerful weapon in sport. If you have your head in the right place, you can beat comptitors MUCH better than you. I try to bring this bodybuilding. As I said to Nancy, I go that extra mile. In regard to posing practice for example, I practice any and every scenario I can come up with. I will practice my routine and make the music fut out in the middle, simulating a sound system issue. I run through it in the dark so I am not reliant upon what my eyes see. I also have a stage I can gain access to. During the last 5 weeks or so, I go there and practice with the bright stage lights. The floor is the same as the real stage. I get used to what I see from that stage. I practice mandatories up there, posing to where the judges will sit, ect. The smart athlete practices the same way he plays. I try to apply as much of that as I can to our sport.

Sean- It is great you practice the posing a lot.  Just make sure you are posing to maximize your physique.  Have someone who has lots of experience with posing take a look at you.  I teach a class for the ten weeks leading up to both of my shows.  It is amazing that many people who have competed for years have no clue what they are supposed to look like or how to look better.  There are certainly things you can do to help you look better. 

Kmaster- Thanks for not including me in the people who have good genetics but don't work!  I certainly have worked very hard.  The sport has changed a lot since my first Worlds win in 1997.  The WNBF added weight classes at that point and it really changed things a lot.  If you ask Dori Frame what year at the Worlds she thinks she looked the best, she will tell you 1997 where she placed 5th and I won for the first time that year.  The reason why is because there were no weight classes.  So, your strategy for contest prep was different.  Dori says if she went in like that with the weight classes, she does not know she would win.  But it explains why she won an overall once.  You have to have it all to win the overall just like in the one class show when you had to compete against everyone from the start. 

 Nancy

Nancy, is posing something you guys cover fairly extensively during the Pro Series camp? If so you are making it harder for me not to come out there. Oh, speaking of, its the airfare that kills me, not the cost fo the camp ;) Back to what you were saying about posing though...I too am AMAZED by the horrible posing i see at every show. I can understand a novice class competitor doing poorly in the posing department. But I see posing that is just as horrible in the Open classes at these WNBF PQ's!!! If I had a dollar for everytime I saw an open class competitor pose poorly and get placed down because of it, I could go buy that airline ticket right now! LOL.

How about genetics and how they do or do not relate to injuries? What do you guys think? I think it goes back to what Joe was saying about muscle origin/insertion and fiber types. Some of us are simply not built to squat 500 pounds, ect...and when we go past those thresholds(whatever they may be), I feel we are at a significantly higher risk of injury. Any thoughts?

By the time I am in my mid 50's, I figure I will have two new knees, a new hip or two, some new-fangled vertebral bodies and I should stand about 5'10" tall given the 30 plus years of spinal compression under a heavy squat bar. Hell, at that height, I should be all the more competitive! The middle years are looking strong!

I'll start looking into prices to see if the camp is even feasible. Stay tuned.